I have been reading LADYPALOOZA over at Tiger Beatdown, and I realized, I have to speak up. Look, I am going to own this shit right here: I went to Lillith Fair when I was a teenager. And I FUCKING LOVED IT.
I know everyone trashes Lillith Fair now and says it sucked. And the music was bad. And whatever. But, you know, I am seriously suspicious of that. It reminds me of what Sady has said about hating on Twilight - some people make fun of Twilight merely because it was written by a woman, and lots of girls like it. And I admit, Twilight is very very very bad and makes me stabby, but also, there is a devaluing of music or literature or any art if women do it and women like it. It must not be Serious. It must not be Good.
And, do I listen to almost any of the music that I heard at Lillith Fair anymore? No. I don't. Because I think I have cultivated a decent musical taste, and that music is just not in my aesthetic anymore. But part of the reason I also don't listen to it is because I associate it with a very specific time and place growing up when I really needed to have same ladies speak for me, and be able to sing my heart out with them.
You know, my family is not the most functional, but I was given a very solid rock upbringing. My dad educated me seriously on Led Zeppelin, the Stones, Neil Young, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Holly, the Beatles, Cream. I was raised on that stuff. And you notice anything about that list? Yeah. And I looooove Led Zep, and I will always love Led Zep, but when you grow up listening to lyrics that command some lady to, "Squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg," you know, after a while, you can really crave some fucking Jewel. You know?
I loved Liz Phair in high school. I loved Sleater-Kinney. But I also loved Sarah McLachlan. I mean, that song about having difficulty getting along with your mother? I was having difficulty with my mother! Or the Paula Cole song about being angry at all the ways your boyfriend devalues your opinion because you are a woman and he feels like he can? I so got that! Or when Sheryl Crow sings about feeling vulnerable and really just wants her partner to reassure her? I understood! Because sometimes, I didn't want Bikini Kill, because I couldn't conjure angry - I was sad and lost and maybe having boyfriend problems and I just wanted to sing mournfully about it or be quiet with it and breathe through it.
And also, here was the thing about Lillith Fair - it was a celebration of being female. Or, we made it a celebration of being female. Sometimes, I just wanted a musical ladyspace. I didn't want to have to defend my music choices to the dudes I was with. In fact, they were ALREADY discounting my musical tastes for having breasts, or liking people who sang who also had breasts, so FUCK IT, we might as well celebrate the breasts.
The first Lillith Fair I went to, I went with like 6 (7? maybe 8. We filled up a mini van to the max) other girls to a ski mountain in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania. These girls I went with were all older, and they were mentors in a way, but they were also so generous and kind and just wonderfully beautiful people (this was my junior year in high school - they were seniors, or home from their first year in college). We laughed like mad the entire way there. We all wore hippie dresses and NONE of us talked about boys or how fat we were or anything negative about ourselves or picked on any other female, not even ones not in the car with us, at all. I had brought my markers, and I was beginning to cover everyone with designs and drawings (a decade of art school paid off!). We sang. We handed out all the cookies and cake we had baked for the trip and couldn't finish to other drivers on the road. It was silly and lovely and fabulous.
And once we got to Lillith Fair? We danced our asses off. We sang as loud as we could. We celebrated being together and singing and moving our bodies and being in the rain, and then being in the sunshine. I had strangers asking me to marker something on their skin, too, and it was so nice, to have all these lovely little interactions with strangers and decorate them. And for me, who was self-conscious and hated my body and had so many self-esteem issues, at no point did I remember that I thought I was fat. Or less than. Or that I shouldn't laugh so loud, be so out-there and present. I was just in my body and surrounded by really loving women and we just celebrated ourselves and our friendships and our female-ness.
I am sitting here smiling, remembering this. That was Lillith Fair to me. I don't care if the music was "bad" - it was exactly what we needed it to be. And I understand how Lillith Fair only featured a certain kind of lady singer, and mostly the kind of lady singer that was considered still a "lady" instead of an "angry feminazi bitch," but, lookit: you know what I did after that Lillith Fair? I went home and broke off a relationship I was in that was unhealthy because after spending a weekend (we stayed overnight at someone's sister's house in PA) around such support and singing and silliness and total glee, I was like, yeah, no, fuck this. I just danced around with a bunch of beautiful women and sang my heart out. There is no reason I have to tolerate shit for being a lady right now. Being a lady is GRAND. And if you are making it not grand, that is YOU, not me.
Now, there are times when I cannot stand Sarah McLachlan now. Or the Indigo Girls. Or whomever. When they play it in Starbucks, I kinda just want to get my coffee as quickly as possible and leave. But that shit was just really healthy for me for a while. It felt healing. And then sharing it with other women and being joyous about being together was also healing. I mean, look, I love Le Tigre, but their music, as much as it sometimes speaks to me, doesn't really promote silliness with lots of other women in the rain and swirling about in long dresses and just being ok in the body you are in. Le Tigre plays its own part in my life. And Lillith Fair, in a very positive way, did too.
So, yeah. I am actually considered, even though law students seem to have woefully bad music taste on the whole, to have pretty good music taste among my compatriots. But I just refuse to dump on Lillith Fair. Because part of me thinks that in the hating, there is just a little too much sexism, a little too much devaluing of women and their voices and their experiences and their tastes, for me to feel comfortable with participating. I went to Lillith Fair. I loved it. It is one of my favorite memories from high school.
AND I heard Joan Osborne, which I don't even CARE what you think about music, she has an AMAZING voice. So there.
I think I may have to write a whole response to this, Gayle. I think these issues go deep and you have your finger on a pulse there.
ReplyDeleteAs a creator of the female sex, I have dealt with these things both in academic settings and with friends. Lilith Fair is not dissimilar from the head space I try to carve out in my studio. Hearing the various reactions to it tells me more about that person than I sometimes want to know.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! For the life of me I cannot understand the Lilith Fair bashing (as you said, 'it was a celebration of being female' and a safe place) by all the feminists blogs!! I mean, if you don't like that type of music now, that is FINE! But society will bash women singers always and we, as promoters of equality, shouldn't get into that bandwagon!
ReplyDeleteMcLachlan created Lilith Fair because of the lack of female singers on radio, and it celebrates women in music...
I didn't go to the first Lilith Fair because I was young, but I remember how popular it was and how cool it was to be a female playing the guitar and singing. I don't listen to the radio anymore, but can someone tell me than in an hour there will be 50%-50% of female/male singers? I doubt it.
So, yes, thanks for writing this because it was something that I never understood and thought I was the only one who thought of that.
You touched on the idea that some of this is about a lack of self-acceptance, not liking the person we may have been (or thought we were) in the '90s. There was something naive about that moment, but that was part of its beauty and the freshness of it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in grad school a few years back, I noticed an Ani quote on the back cover of a notebook that a fellow grad student was scrawling in. I said, "Do you like Ani diFranco?" She looked hostile, "I DID." I said, "Yeah, I was really into her music in the mid/late '90s but I was less interested after the change of millenium and I think it had to do with changes in me and in her music." I wanted to talk about Ani, in a grad school where I felt MAJOR disparities and divisions between the genders were part of the politics. I was greeted by cold stares not only from the woman with the inscription, who, by the way, insisted that "a friend" had written it there, but from a group of women (who are queer and who I later heard ragging on their former love for Lilith Fair bands). Way to silence ourselves, women... ugh.
finer thing, I totally agree with that about the 1990s. I look back with a combination of chagrin and nostalgia. It may be my geezer-coloured glasses, but there really was something different and special about the brief flutter of the possibility of something better, of being able to be better.
ReplyDeleteI remember, on a Greyhound bus trip, my seatmate was maybe a little older than me, and actually gave me her Ani diFranco mixed tape, and I loved it so much. It gave a bit more shape to this amorphous constant anger I felt - it helped me realize why I was so freaking angry all the time, and how much of that anger was tied up in being treated badly by the world (by which I mean patriarchal structures) for being a woman.
And it kind of amazes me that years later, I am not into Ani at all. And it's difficult to parse out exactly why - in my case, maybe it's because I am still angry, but angry in a more adult and less teenage way, and that part of me is kind of ashamed of the kind of VERY PERSONAL AND ALL ABOUT ME kind of anger about WHY BOYS DON'T LIKE ME-ness of my teenage anger, or maybe underneath it all I feel like I sold out, by maybe being a little less angry, or differently angry? Or more proactive about directing that anger appropriately...?
This is getting pretty rambly, but I may swing by again if I can figure out this complex disavowal of Ani diFranco. Much food for thought, thank you!
(sorry about the grammar failure in my above post. I can haz proofreader, pls?)
ReplyDeleteHOW MUCH DO I LOVE THIS FUCKING CONVERSATION!?!?
ReplyDeletefiner thing - that so could have been me being defensive now, I swear. And Miss Minx, I assure you, have you seen some of my posts? Grammar is secondary to awesomeness (and your comment was awesome).
I TOTALLY cannot listen to Ani anymore, either! Can't do it. Which: I went through a period where all I was was angry and if I was awake, I was probably listening to her. I have almost a revulsion to those songs now. What gives?
I have many thoughts on this? Many not coherent? But part of the Ani thing is I remember when I was growing up and figuring things out and I was awkward and things were hard and those songs take me back to a really kinda formative but not always fun place. It's like, I have this yearly ritual, on New Years, of running a bubble bath and reading all my old journals from when I was a teenager/younger young lady. And they are awkward and painful and I used to grimace my way through them, but I eventually came to love them, because they were, kinda, the historical look into me. And Ani is now that: a historical look into me. But, music really takes me back, aaaaaand: I don't really want to go back there, frankly.
And back there was embarrassing. I think we are embarrassed by our former selves, and I wonder how much that has to do with always feeling the need to be complete and together and not too female and raw and messy. I don't know.
Also? I have better (more mature? more nuanced?) music taste at this point in my life.
And finally: I think I am a gazillion times more aware of how complex privilege is now. So, the Ani songs are a lot about lady issues, but I worry about a lot more than just (white) lady issues now: fuck, I am doing the international human rights law clinic next semester to work with torture survivors. Ani feels almost too self-indulgent and faintly ridiculous.
Gayle, on the Ani thing and privelege: When she sings about more global politics, it always communicated more about her response, being angry and upset about the issue, than the issue itself.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it's not a problem solving approach. She's tends to spend a lot of time in the songs being angry at somebody or something (or everything at once) which I do understand as an adult, but yeah, I'm more nuanced now. And also, if something pisses me off, I do still have pity parties at times, but then I move on and go do something else constructive and remind myself to be grateful for the people who do know and like me. But yeah, Ani is embarrasing to nearly all of us.
To be honest, nearly all music that you outgrow is incredibly embarrassing. Like, when you've outgrown yourself and your old ideas. I do that all the time, and that is a good sign, I think.
I was looking at the lineup of the old Lileth Fair and a lot of it is music that I didn't load into my iTunes when I got it a while back. It no longer resonates. It is interesting how music also absorbs everything about the time in which you liked it and doesn't really grow with you.
I'm still thinking about Ani diFranco... You've hit the privilege nail on the head, Gayle. diF is totally caught up in her Nice White Lady's Feelings on Important Global Matters. Which in itself is kind of repulsive. Especially, as you've pointed out, in the context of working with torture survivors. (Which is amazing, wherein "amazing" means I can't believe this is a category of people in the world, that other people have made it one.)
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, nearly all music that you outgrow is incredibly embarrassing. Like, when you've outgrown yourself and your old ideas.
This is so true! A totally off-topic example, but I can't believe how into The Cure I used to be. One day I was all, like, "For serious, Robert Smith? You are *still* on about this? You may want to consider getting out more." And I was really surprised, because I thought me and The Cure would be BFF's for realz til the end of time. (Which is also repulsive, in the context of the above.)
Oh, Miss Minx, your story with The Cure. I, also, find them whinge-y now. There are many, many bands that I was bestest friends ever with during my Gayle is an Adolescent and Has Angst and Writes Bad Poetry About Being Stuck in a Box Where It is Also Dark stage that I will start shrieking in agony if I listen to them now. Also, interestingly, they were mostly guy bands? And at some point, I just got very: REALLY dude? Shut the fuck up. Billy Corgan, go eat a cookie and watch some Monty Python already, JESUS.
ReplyDeleteRobert Smith, get your Vitamin D already. Take a long walk in the sunshine. Report back.
ReplyDeleteOr you know, maybe if Robert Smith went to Lilith Fair and danced in his flowing clothes in the rain and shared lipsticks and sang loud and pretty, he wouldn't feel so sad?
ReplyDeletefiner thing - I just snorted fizzy-drink out my nose! I need a tissue! Probably several!
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing, though, isn't it? That we have separate concerts/festivals for "male" and "female" relationship (or lack thereof) angst. K's guest post at TB from yesterday really gets to the heart of this angst-segregation, and the stigma that lingers and lingers over relationship albums written and sung by women. Before yesterday, I had never really thought in any great depth about any of this, and now I am seriously annoyed. I need another fizzy-drink!
Regarding poetry - Gayle, I stumbled across some of mine not that long ago, and nearly cringed myself into a dislocated shoulder. I'll share some if you share some!
OH MY LORD. Best. Idea. Ever. You're on.
ReplyDeleteLemme see what I can dig up tonight! It'll be like a wee contest: who was a more shamelessly terrible young angsty silly person on paper???
I am so going to win this :P (Um, as if winning this was a GOOD thing . . . )
Oh, I poked around over at your place - I didn't see an email. Feel free to use mine, if you feel comfortable doing so . . .
I am never going to get studying done for evidence law now. WORD.
Going to the old journal shelf. May have to fire up the scanner. I kept visual journals, too and they are fodder for this activity!
ReplyDeleteI won't win the writing.
Dang! I could have sworn I put up some kind of contact info... But then again, I am all Forgetful Jones over here.
ReplyDeleteI will also look through my stuffz tonight, and will email you the saddest, most dreadful poetry you ever did read in the morning.
and oh, Miss Minx, I was positively giddy that any of my silliness could make you laugh.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to this event.
May I (humbly) suggest (as I am your servant here, Gayle :)) that you create a new (even empty-ish) post heading for this festivities so as to invite other readers?
Oh, and I was just reading my journals and I'm pretty sure "Tina Fey just called me a whore."
ReplyDeleteUm, sorry dude, but not right now. Maybe later? Because while I am very excited to interact on a personal level with new people because that brings me great pleasure, this blog is not going to suck any more of my time than what is for my simple enjoyment, and I don't feel like filtering things from lots of people to make posts (at least for now) and feeling like I have any obligations in this space. Because: FINALS. And I am for serious fucked.
ReplyDeleteAnd THAT is because Tina Fey is a crappy feminist.
ReplyDeleteooo, i'm late on reading this one but i had to comment because it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside - nail on head, such a great great post!!! and especially b/c the conversation turned to ani; i don't listen to much ani anymore the way i don't look at my old journals. i won't disparage them, but they have a special place in my life (i.e., space on my external hard and space in my "old journals drawer"). i'm not all that interested in revisiting those times but i recognize what they meant to me then, which was pretty special. in ani's defense :), i'd like to imagine she feels the same way, since she has a mountain of records to show for her awkward, formative years - i can't imagine she doesn't look back at some of them and think "ugh. oh well." and i love hearing about wee young gayle shaking her ass off at lilleth fair! xx
ReplyDeleteI cannot at all relate to this post because we never had any such music event that promoted and communicated women's experience. The music culture, in general, was really poor while I was a high school student in a small Croatian town. My music tastes were limited to The Doors, Pearl Jam, Manic Street Preachers and Hole. (And Alanis Morrissete for a while, but I usually leave her out :D). We didn't have MTV or Internet access and there was only one music magazine that was halfway decent, so I didn't really have access to diverse music... But I made up for all that when I came to university and discovered the joys of peer2peer networks... :D
ReplyDeleteOk, can I take a moment to discuss Alanis Morrissette though? Because ASP, I so think you should own her. Or her first album. Because that You Oughtta Know (guys, does "oughtta" have two t's? It looks weird) was one of the first really angry hatey lady-letting-loose songs that I'd heard on mainstream radio then. Actually, and maybe ever since, thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteI mean, say what you want about lyrics or music or whatever, but there was a woman being REALLY MAD at some jerk who treated her poorly and she basically, musically, ripped him a new one, right there over the radio, in such a public way (because, like, all the Riot Grrrl stuff felt mostly surreptitious, because it wasn't popular) and I remember in high school a whole gaggle of us young womenfolk singing that as loud and raw and throaty as we could and it was NICE to have some unbridled lady anger at the dudes.
Also: Hole. Early Hole was fun, too.
And now I am going to go listen to Manic Street Preachers, ASP, because you may have lived in a small Croation town, and that sounds really frustrating, music-wise, but I still don't know who MSP are.
But I can't own Alanis Morrissete, because I really didn't relate to her in that sense. Her songs were just songs, they didn't speak to my experience - I didn't have boyfriend issues at that point in my life, but I had terrific issues with the whole world in general and with myself in particular (that is, especially with myself). The immediate relationships with people of the other sex were at the same time too specific and not specific enough to concern me. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's the reason why I related so much more to both Manic Street Preachers and Pearl Jam at that time. I mean, don't get me wrong - to get that kind of girl anger on the mainstream radio is fantastic, but some time after her I found out MSP's This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours and I simply lost interest in Alanis because MSP spoke to me so much more. That album was, like, MY album sooo much. That's the music I really owned at that time.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you're going to explore MSP, may I recommend a few of my favourites? I will :D
From This Is My Truth: I'm Not Working, You Stole the Sun from My Heart, Born A Girl, Be Natural, but the whole album is worth listening to, really.
Also: Motorcycle Emptiness, From Despair To Where, La Tristesse Durera, She is Suffering, 4st 7lbs (it's about Richey's own problems with anorexia and has some really beautiful lyrics - this acoustic version is also great), A Design for Life, Kevin Carter, Girl Who Wanted To Be God (I love love love this song), No Surface All Feeling, So Why So Sad, Mis Europa Disco Dancer (funky!), Found That Soul.
And a bonus song! MSP's cover of Rhianna's Umbrella :D
I mostly stopped listening to MSP sometime after Know Your Enemy. I don't know why. I guess they were just one of those things that you can't live without while you're growing up, and then they become a thing of the past...
I still think they're worth exploring, because they have some great songs.
And because I'm such a fangirl (still!) I'm going to post a few pictures of the Manics - mostly of Nicky Wire who was totally the most handsome guy when I was in high school (tall! gangly! he wore make up! and dresses!!):
ReplyDeleteThe band (while Richey was still with them)
Nicky in a dress on stage
Nicky in a dress back stage
Nicky and Richey "tarted up"
Richey with "4 real" carved on his left arm (warning! blood and open wounds in that picture)
The band dressed up in some uniforms (their songs were often political)
Nicky Wire on stage: with make up and a feather boa tied to the mic stand
Richey with a Snoopy doll (awww)
And this, which I like, for some reason, a lot. :D
Aaah, I've been listening to the Manics all day now... Man, it brings back memories..